Neleus

Ilias Book 11 line 713-717 Barry B Powell
Ilias Book 11 line 694-698 Barr B Powell
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Messinia nowadays

The kingdom of Neleus is believed to be about the same as modern Messinia, but that can't be right, as we've just learned Pylos was decimated in battle, only a few survived. It follows that Pylos must have lost a lot of its territory as well.

But there's more. Nestor tells his comrades at Troy:

We in Pylos were few and oppressed, for mighty Herakles had come in earlier years and killed all of our bravest man. The sons of handsome Neleus were twelf, but I alone was left. All others perised.

It appears some time after Herakles, Itymon also oppressed Neleus' Pylos.

Fortunately, there are a number of other options we can explore in order to locate Pylos. One is a story told by Nestor about himself as a youth freeing the city of Thryoëssa.

Would it that I were young and my strength were as when a quarrel broke out with the Eleians and ourselfs over some cattle- then I killed Itymon, the noble son af Hypeirochos, who lived in Elis.

Then the arrogant Epians, wearing shirt of bronze, did violance against us and committed evil acts. So, old man Neleus took from them a herd of cattle and a large flok of sheep, choosing three hunderd, and their herdsmen too.

There is going to be trouble!

Herakles came from Arkadia, which is to the North-East of Pylos, first he conquered Elis in the North, then Pylos itself, after which he attacked Sparta to the South-East.

Let's start with the state Nestor's Pylos was recently in, which wasn't very well. Nestor's father Neleus had been fighting great battles to save his Pylos but at a high cost, Neleus and Nestor barely survived. This is how Nestor recounted the situation:

Another is the list of cities in the 'catalogue of ships'. As we've seen in scroll 1, Homer used an orderly topographical sequence for the catalogue itself and for the islands he mentions. It's to be expected he would use the same for the cities of Pylos.

A third is about the missing southern part of Messinia.

And, of course, Telemachos' trip to Sparta can help.